Producer Marc Abraham had produced his share of hits, including Children of Men, the remake of Dawn of the Dead, Spy Game, The Rundown, and Bring It On, but it took an unusual story of a real-life David and Goliath to take Abraham from the production office to the director's chair. The successful producer hopes to become a successful director with his film, Flash of Genius, the true story of Bob Kearns, the man who invented the intermittent windshield wiper. Sounds thrilling, doesn't it?

Actually, there is an amazing story here about an inventor who watched as Ford stole his creation and had to tear his life apart to find justice. It's a challenging film, especially for a first time director, but it helps to have a talented actor in the lead role. Abraham hit the jackpot with Greg Kinnear, who, for not the first time, takes a complex role and knocks it out of the park.

Kinnear is surprisingly still underrated and, quite simply, one of the most consistent actors alive. Simon Bishop in As Good As It Gets, Bob Crane in Auto Focus, Danny Wright in The Matador, Don Anderson in Fast Food Nation, Richard Hoover in Little Miss Sunshine, Dick Vermeil in Invincible, Bradley Smith in Feast of Love and, in theaters at the same time, Frank Herlihy in Ghost Town and Bob Kearns in Flash of Genius. It's a list of well-rounded characters that some actors don't produce in a career. Kinnear has done it in a little over a decade. Greg and Marc sat down for a brief round table here in Chicago and The Deadbolt was there to catch up on Flash of Genius and more.

How are you?

GREG KINNEAR: I had a steak at Gibson's last night too late at night. Paying the price. You don't sleep well after you have a piece of meat the size of a suitcase before going to bed.

Never eat something bigger than your head.

KINNEAR: That's a good rule. But it might not work because I have a big head.

Let's talk about Toronto. With two movies there - Ghost Town and Flash of Genius - can it be more exhausting than fun?

KINNEAR: You know, film festivals all have their own personality and their own cachet. They're all kind of different animals. Toronto was particularly fun to go back to especially for this movie because we shot it there. My wife and our family was just down the road from the area where it played. So, it was actually kind of cool to go back there and we had a cast and crew screening. They worked really hard on this movie. So, there was some personal... it was great because we shot the movie there. Obviously, having two movies there, to answer your question, it was a little tough. It was a lot of press to do in a short period of time.

Did you have a good time?

MARC ABRAHAM: Yeah. You know, it's a good town and we have a lot of goodwill there because we had the best crew in the city. We had a massive cast and crew screening the day before we actually had our premiere. So, there was a lot of nice buzz because people were happy with the picture. I'd been there many times with films and they do love movies. They're very supportive of film. We played in the biggest theater there, The Elgin, which is a great old movie theater. And it was a Saturday afternoon and it was raining.

KINNEAR: Lightly raining. Intermittently raining. Misting.

ABRAHAM: I love going to a matinee. We don't have the time we did when we were kids - to take a Saturday afternoon and go. It was one of those days. And they loved the movie. I should say the response was great. We were happy. I had a good time.

I read in another interview that the script was originally called Windshield Wiper Man. You [Marc] worked on it for nine years to get it going and then it sat on your [Greg's] desk...

KINNEAR: It took you nine years to name it Windshield Wiper Man? That's what he's asking.

ABRAHAM: I'm kinda slow.

I want to know what made you pick it up? "You know, I'm gonna read Windshield Wiper Man.

KINNEAR: You know, it was sitting there. It sat on my desk for a while. I don't know how long it was. It was just staring at me. And it had the title on the side of it. So, literally, I saw the title Windshield Wiper Man every day when I went in my office. I don't know. At some point, it was just, "Ah, what the Hell." Really, I just cracked it. I thought... I don't know what I thought it was - comedy or whatever. I cracked it and thought I'd scratch out a few pages and move on. Of course, I couldn't put it down. By the way, that's the best way to see the movie. That's the best way to read the script, any script - to go in with as little expectation as possible. Of course, with any story.

I still think our title leaves a lot to the imagination, which is good. I was kind of floored with the journey. I didn't know this guy. He died [in 2005] and there were about 1300 obituaries written about him. He was out there. This idea was out there. We do come across people who say, "Oh yeah, I knew about this guy." Quite often, you get a little "Oh yeah..." You know, as far as the character, whether it was a real story or not, the guy was "not the most charming guy" as Alan Alda says. He was kind of abrasive. Tough. But at the same time had this decency about him and, ultimately, was driving to something that you wanted him to succeed at. That was a hell of a character.

This is your directorial debut. And it's a passion film for you. What initially made you think "I have to direct this movie"?

ABRAHAM: I read the article [in The New Yorker that inspired the film]. It's a really good article. Just a very talented writer. And the article was very complex. In other words, it wasn't, "Hey, here's a story about a really savior fellow, just in a white hat who just gets crushed by the evil corporation." It was much more nuance than that. Immediately, I was interested in it because I loved the idea of nuance and just knowing, having lived long enough, knowing that nobody's story is black and white.

And the primary thing I loved about it is the thing that's obviously the hardest to sell is "A movie about the guy who invented the intermittent windshield wiper? What? You're kidding. What's it really about?" So, that has power in it. Anything that invokes a response in any form has power. Even if it's disdain or incredulity or some weird reaction. That already has something.

And I loved the irony of the fact that here was this story about this guy who had this invention that even by its name you could almost say was frivolous or was whimsical or was kind of really brilliant but not necessary. It's not like this is a story about - There's a great book I'm reading now called Every Second Counts about the four guys who were trying to be the first guys to do a human heart transplant. You say THAT and guys go, "That's the HEART." This is about the WINDSHIELD WIPER.

But then you have the juxtaposition of this kind of idea with, "Well, what's it REALLY about?" What's this movie about? It's actually about a man fighting for his dignity or fighting against injustice or fighting for, most importantly, principle. I love movies about ideas. So, here was this big idea that is a staple of American literature - The American Dream. Whether it's Willie Loman or it's Tom Joad or any of the people that are seared in our memory, or it's Bob Kearns. It's still this American dream. I loved that.

When I read it, I told the producer who gave it to me, "I'll option it." And he said "That's great." And then I dropped a dime on him and said, "But, by the way, when we do it, I'm gonna direct it." And was like, [apprehensively], "Great." He wanted to sell the deal. He wanted it to close. But the more I talked about it and the more I worked on it, the more they realized that I was serious about it. They didn't have a choice because I controlled it at that point.

KINNEAR: They're in a lawsuit. [laughs]

So, were you looking for a project to direct?

ABRAHAM: No, I had started as a writer. I stood on that side of the fence and actually became a producer by accident. I never once in my entire life, growing up, writing, working in advertising, said, "I want to be a movie producer." Not that that's a bad thing, it's obviously a good thing. But I have a lot of respect for people who do it right and care about movies and you can really be the person that helps a great movie get made. But I always wanted to try it. Somehow, I kept putting it off, putting it off, putting it off, which we do.

KINNEAR: You just needed to find an actor stupid enough...

ABRAHAM: ... to work with a first-time director.

Greg, you said in The New York Times recently that "You never had a complete handle on this character." What did you mean by that and why?

KINNEAR: I think that the movie - This guy's quest to find satisfaction and to try and be relieved of this burden is, whether or not he found that satisfaction, I think it's kind of nicely left by Marc. I think it's drawn in some ambiguous colors. And I think that's true. I can't tell you, even after having talked to his family, it would be ridiculous... This is a guy's life over fifteen years. He left a lot on the table. He went through a hell of a lot. The wake of damage around him was felt by not only him but his family.

At the end of the day, whether he ever got the place that he needed to get to and found the things he needed to find in order to make himself whole? I don't know. And I think it would be ridiculous for anybody to try and make the assumption that they would know that unequivocally. All great characters, to me, can not be defined in absolutes. It's an interpretative world - the making of any movie, particularly with a story about a guy who was kind of strangely driven as he was. Needing to find satisfaction. There's just a lot of different angles to the character.

I think most of your characters are great everymen. Is there something about the everyman that appeals to you? Even Bob Kearns, who is clearly a smart guy, but when you see his everyday circumstances...

KINNEAR: I honestly, the everyman thing - I don't know what it is exactly. I do find that if you can find a character who has some sort of dichotomy or some sort of contradiction in their behavior that that is a good thing. I don't think anybody is necessarily as they seem. That feels more real to me. I don't look for roles. I definitely am not a role searcher - "Find me a role where I'm gonna blah blah blah..." It's too hard to do. It's hard enough just to find a script that doesn't suck, let alone to be out there seeking roles. When you read something, and certainly when I read the script for this, "Well, there's a character who's fantastic. There's a guy whose personality is running at a lot of different cross-currents and changing." I think he changes in this story. The fact that it was true is just a blessing.

What about Kearns story is relevant today?

ABRAHAM: Personally, I think the average guy is always "up against it". There's so much nobility in it. I don't personally feel like - and it's ever more clear - that the CEO is any more important than any other person who works at their company. What I love and am touched by on a daily basis is anyone who really cares about their job.

This sounds really corny but I was driving with my wife and we were going to a wedding the other day and we were on a toll road. The guy at the tollbooth was just the most chipper and happiest guy. I drove away and I was like, "I feel good seeing a man who's doing a job and every day he's just taking these things but he was doing it as well as he could." I think it's a matter of personal - The average person is always up against life, which has a lot of curves. Right now, there's no question...

The movie played the other night in Los Angeles and there was a palpable response to the Alan Alda situation that had not been in some of the earlier ones even just three, four, or five weeks ago when we first started screening the picture. I'm not trying to say that this is more important than it is, it what it is. This is a film about some people that hopefully touches people and makes them feel good.

But given the state of the union and the fact that people's IRAs are going down and that they feel like their money isn't there, and that the people who are supposedly minding the store have been basically saying, "Don't worry about it, you're fine. Don't worry about it, you're okay." I think people are feeling more and more marginalized and not heard and frustrated. To the extent that this is a film about that. It's an interesting confluence.

It wasn't why we made the movie. Why we made the movie is because we loved the theme. The fact that the theme is more relevant today than it was possibly a year and a half ago when we made it, maybe is good. Maybe it will make the movie more successful, maybe it won't. It will always be interesting timing if you look at it from a journalistic stand point. Why did a movie like this happen to come about at this moment?

I think there's another relevant confluence of David and Goliath. The movie comes out next week. Six movies come out this week and six more open against it next Friday. It's a little man going against big movies. What's a measure of success for a movie like this? I mean, you can't expect a $100 million opening. What are you hoping for?

KINNEAR: You can't. [laughs] What ARE we hoping for?

ABRAHAM: You know, I've made a lot of movies and some of them have opened for a lot of dough. What I'm hoping for - and this is just my own personal feeling about this picture based on the way it's played - is that it's enough number of people to see it that it feels like it's "hot coals". I don't have a real number. It ain't $20 million. It's not $2 million. It's somewhere where a number - I feel a movie like this just needs to get the coals heated up.

I've seen people come out and be engaged by it and want to see it - It is a word-of-mouth picture. I just hope that it's enough people that they can spread the word-of-mouth. Then it will find its way. I'm proud of the picture, believe in the movie, love Greg's performance - whatever happens after that it's really in the hands of the Gods. I made a little movie called Bring It On that nobody thought was going to make a nickel, including my partners, but then it caught on. You can make a movie like Children of Men, which people revere, and it did fine, but it only made $35 million total. We've seen some shit out there that makes $400 million and we go "What?" You can't control that.

As we go along, more and more now it feels like you can't get a drama made. Did you feel an uphill battle just trying to get a drama made?

ABRAHAM: I think the problem with dramas has been that dramas have gotten really small. They've gotten very tightly made and so independent and the people are so dysfunctional... It doesn't mean that they're not good movies but the people are hard to relate to. But if you think of the movies - the whole business came out of drama. Whether it's the Capra movies or the Ford movies or the Coppola movies, these movies were dramas. I think you're right in that it is hard and it was difficult to get it going and we didn't get a lot of money. But I don't think it's a dirty word. It's incumbent upon us as artists and filmmakers that if we're gonna make a drama to make sure that it's a drama that has some relevance to a slightly larger community than just an art movie.

Was Ford upset?

ABRAHAM: They basically stayed pretty cool. They know we didn't try to paint them as the most evil guys in the world. We have heard - and I don't know, I can't completely confirm - that they've asked not to run their commercials at the same time our spots are running. And we've heard that they've asked their local dealers not to run in the same pods on the cables.

Are you going back to directing or just producing? I read recently that you're working on a reimagining of The Thing?

ABRAHAM: Yeah, we are. [to Greg] You haven't asked me about that one.

KINNEAR: You're doing The Thing also?

ABRAHAM: Yep.

KINNEAR: We talked about The Creature From the Black Lagoon last night.

You could be the Kurt Russell part.

KINNEAR: Is Kurt Russell in The Creature From the Black Lagoon?

No, The Thing.

ABRAHAM: The second Thing. James Arness is in the first Thing.

He IS The Thing.

KINNEAR: I would be the creature. I'm vying for the creature in The Creature From the Black Lagoon. I've got this outfit, the rubber gills. I already told him - "I come with the whole package." It's my most challenging role to date. The CREATURE From the Black Lagoon. [laughs]

ABRAHAM: I've got a couple of things. Black Lagoon. A Robert Ludlum book that I'm on tap to produce with my partners. I love this process. I loved working with artists and somebody as talented with Greg was a blessing. I'd love to work with him again. I'd love to find something we could do. That's the whole joy - the process. I have a job, which is fine, but I'd love to direct a movie again. It's a great job.

You're just producing Creature? Not directing?

ABRAHAM: Yeah.

You guys are obviously thinking about box office but are you also thinking about Oscar potential?

ABRAHAM: He'll [Greg] never answer that. The thing about that is that you only can do what you do to make movies. You can't... It's just not really relevant to think about those things - "You're telling me you never thought about getting awards?" Of course, everybody's thinks about that. But you don't go around thinking about it or else you miss every other moment. You miss the moment of sitting in the theater in Boston and watching people gasp or cheer. Believe me, if you're thinking about - You can get in a maze of thinking in this business. Honestly, what I usually think about, I'm just trying to avoid public humiliation.

Can you tell us about future projects? You did a movie with Paul Greengrass?

KINNEAR: Actually, still... going back over to Morocco in a couple of weeks. It's about the early mobile exploitation teams that went into Iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction and not finding a lot as it turns out. It's a thriller. Imperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq's Green Zone is the backdrop for the movie and I think more than anything what Paul was taking from that was the strangeness of this immersion of Americans into "Mars" or The Green Zone. What an odd juxtaposition that was and using that backdrop to tell an interesting thriller. I play the Pentagon liaison whose intentions are unclear.

Flash of Genius opens nationwide this Friday, October 3rd.